This morning I heard the Reverend David Shaw of “The Church In The Wildwood”, in Green Mountain
Falls speak about the novel, “A River Runs Through It”. David pointed
out that toward the end of the novel, the author, Norman Maclean, remembering his father, the Reverend Maclean, deliver one
of his last sermons with two moving
quotes. David Shaw touched on these
themes this morning in his own sermon.
“It is those we live
with and love and should know who elude us”.
”But, you can love
completely with out complete understanding”.
Reverend Dave Shaw simply shared with us with honest
humility that there is much he does not completely understand. There is much
that eludes him and us. How refreshing! We cannot completely understand how
Jesus can raise Lazarus and bring new life to those he touches. We cannot
completely understand so much of life: its beauty as well as the ugliness and
brokenness. Ironically, I find such honesty far more reverent of God than those
who seem to always know.
“But we can still love
completely”, or at least that is our hope.
There is much I don’t understand while fly fishing: the
beauty of the river or of a rainbow trout arching out of the water showing its
beautiful colors. How can I understand such beauty completely?
“In the open
mindedness of not knowing enough about anything; It was beautiful” Mary Oliver
It sounds as though you had one of those wonderful, if sometimes illusive, experiences where the Pastor/Priest/Minister/Reverend delivers a powerful, moving, and insightful message. Of course, when referring to that special book, he had great material and no doubt "gets it". Is Reverend Shaw a regular at that church?
ReplyDeleteRegarding "knowing" and self knowledge, I came across a book I've had for over thirty years, The Prophet by Kahlil Gibran, It still rings true.
"Your hearts know in silence the secrets of the day and the nights. But your ears thirst for the sound of your heart's knowledge. You would know in words that which you have always known in thought... The hidden well-spring of your soul must needs rise and run murmuring to the sea; And the treasure of your infinite depths would be revealed to your eyes. But let there be no scales to weigh your unknown treasure; And seek not the depths of your knowledge with staff or sounding line. For self is a sea boundless and measureless."
-L
Dave is the minister of the church so, yes, he is there most of the time and "gets it" and is authentic. What I like best about this small church is the Tuesday night service where a small group of us, 6-12 people, get together; sing a few songs, give thanks and prayer requests and dialogue together about a theme. It is not a "one man" show but rather each one of us, sitting in a circle, offering what we have. I view this type of service as being far more consistent with Romans Ch.12 and many other N.T scriptures about how the "church" is to function. It is "one anothering" and if I think, "oh this is boring" I can choose to add what I have to offer, my own gift/perpective, instead of being passive.
ReplyDeleteDo you have experience in a "Church"?
A copy of "The Prophet" is in my library but it has been a while since I have read it.
The Tuesday evening service sounds very authentic and meaningful indeed. Far preferable to the collection of semi-autonomous crowds delivering rote prayers and performing ritualized motions as frequently seen in many institutionalized places of worship.
ReplyDeleteYes, I have experience in a "Church", but I find that I am still wanting (perhaps this obvious). I was raised Catholic and attended church until about age 19. After many years "adrift", I returned to the church and have been attending mass with some regularity at St. Paul's. However, I don't seem passionate enough to truly get involved. The experience is not sufficiently fulfilling...
-L
Do not misunderstand, I do not mean to disparage the Church and its rituals. There is a place for it - especially when forming morals as a child. And prayer is so very important. I am just searching for a different form of worship and on a smaller scale.
ReplyDelete-L
I don't think there is a misunderstanding. I could write volumes on being "adrift" and the problems I have encountered with church "life". But that is another story, and for now, rather than merely 'drift away', I think we are asking those tough questions about what the church is and could be and should be and how it could function and what we might want. Your last couple of comments included several words that caught my attention. You said, "I am still wanting..." I think the "wanting" can be a good place to be although others would disagree with me. To 'want more' can be a more honest place particularly while sitting in a church. It seems the way many churches are set up (as you describe in part), I really don't know how people can just sit there and not want more.
ReplyDeleteYes, to question seems healthy. When people get into a mindless habit and simply go through the motions, then one wonders at the value of it all. I do want more. Time is precious and I feel it a dis-service to myself to walk away from mass without really feeling something or getting value from the readings. Did I just fall into the trap of the habitual?
ReplyDeleteWhat indeed should/could the church be? That's thought provoking. We could discuss this for hours...
Clearly it means something different to different people: spirituality, communion with fellow man, thanksgiving, worship, support, healing, and much more. The format and venue for church is so important as well. Be it in the mountains or on the river soaking in the beauty and wonder of God's glory through nature or the magnificence of a cathedral, or the intimacy of a small mountain church. How to keep people engaged and interested? There's a challenge.
The interactive component of the Tuesday night service at Church of the Wildwood sounds appealing because it fosters thinking and engages those who choose to participate. It's on a "human scale".
-L
I will comment on the above several days from now...
ReplyDeleteFor now though.. Yes I too think it has to be on a "human scale"...
And the question of "What could be", whether in the church or any aspect of life is so needed. I believe we must ask that question. It was said of Don Quixote, "Maddest of all is to see life only as it is and not what it could be". It almost seems that society at large lacks the spiritual imagination to even ponder something "more" or better, including life in the church.If we can't see those images I think we are in trouble of losing much; or already have.
ReplyDeleteI look forward to your comments.
ReplyDelete-L
"I will comment on the above several days from now..."
It is my hope in "wanting more" for church that it is at once, and both on a "human scale" (as you phrased it), and has its "roots" in another realm (the spiritual). The church, to me, certainly should be more than a group of people sitting passively next to each other (just following the"habit" of doing things as I think you put it) and more than being "nice" to each other. The whole experience "could be" in another realm. A truly spiritual experience. I don't think the New Testament separates what we call "worship" with "one anothering". If you look at (among other passages), Romans Ch. 12 we have a direct statement of what "worship" IS. Romans 12:1 says that we are to offer our selves up to one another, "Which is your spiritual service or worship", and then the text in the following verses describes this "spiritual worship", as "not thinking of ourselves as more highly than others", and how we have different gifts and that we should use (or exercise) them to and for and among "one another". And somehow, or at least this is my hope, that as an assembly of authentic individuals actually learns to do this, (each one using his/her gift and perspective) that this causes the "body" to grow up in love. And it is a mystery. This is way different than listening to a lecture. Or listening to worship music. It is also more than "group therapy". This is also way different than just sitting silently praying or "worshiping" (of course praying and listening can be "part" of this experience but not all of it). This is way different than being "alone" meditating... See also I Corinthians chapter 12:1-29. What is done,is done for the good of all, and this IS our worship. Most churches are far from this.
ReplyDelete... You speak of going away "not getting anything" from Mass... and this is a "dis-service". Yes, it is a "dis-service". and it is also (due to no fault of your own)a "NO-service" in the sense that individuals of the church are not given the opportunity to actually participate in the service. I think people like you do have something to offer, and this is where it gets tricky to find the place to contribute. Some will argue that you should join this or that ministry/committee or "small group" etc.. and yet, as I have just written above in my other comments, I think the individual should have their own place in the "Worship service" because according to the passages quoted above (Romans 12; I Cor 12, etc) the place for the individual is actually in the service where by he or she offers up all that they have to give. This is the place! Once again, sad things are not set up this way for the most part.
ReplyDeleteI am glad you are "back" and I appreciate your comments - you touch on several important points. The spiritual worship is what I desire. How truly great it would be to give up the "self" for the whole body. To level the field in a Christian community so that one is not consumed with comparison, competition, and self-righteous feelings. Rather to be united through a common belief and purpose and to love humbly. We do indeed have different gifts and it is important to acknowledge that; to recognize our blessings without the envy of wanting what another has been blessed with. Rather, sharing and using those gifts would enrich the "body" and cause it "to grow up in love" as you say. Thank you for pointing out Romans 12 and Corinthians 12. And yes, I like the notion of the individual actually being IN the service. This requires a certain boldness or willingness to be open; to overcome feelings of self-consciousness. Not necessarily easy if one is unaccustomed to exposing deeply held thoughts/beliefs or "offering all they have to give" but the experience would be worth it.
ReplyDeleteThe message in Corinthians 12 also translates to teamwork. In a spiritual worship such as you describe, I will posit that this is akin to the "ultimate team"; something I long for and occasionally have experienced in my professional life and elsewhere. All the "parts" bring their talents and gifts together, working in unison to bring about a "whole" that is more than the sum of the parts. The individual is distinct yet the team is itself something altogether more.
"As the strings of a lute are apart though they quiver the same music.” K. Gilbran
-L